Who Won the Presidential Debate?
The first presidential debate revealed some clear differences between President Obama and Gov. Romney. Who do you think won the debate?
- October 3, 2012
http://doylestown.patch.com/articles/who-won-the-presidential-debate-f2ac28af/media_attachments/edit?upload_started=1368901525
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The first presidential debate is over. Who do you think won?
Or are debates irrelevant these days? If you missed it, watch the live recording above and then tell us what you think.
Tells us in comments.
Thanks. We'll email you the next time we update this story.
Read More in Elections
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Mike Shortall
11:45 pm on Wednesday, October 3, 2012
No doubt a victory for Mitt Romney tonight! Much stronger performance than I expected. The race just got significantly tighter!
Next time, Mr. President, just take the wife out for an anniversary dinner and bag the debate!
Johnathan
11:59 pm on Wednesday, October 3, 2012
Romney won. He had a clear and sound message. Obama continued the same old talking points he has for the last four years. Under Obama, we have gotten more people out of work, more people on welfare, and have DOUBLED our country's debt. The facts are the facts. Wake up America! We are on the wrong path. Romney has been successful in business and as governor. Don't vote for Obama, to continue to run our country down. Vote for change. Vote for Romney!
Will
12:56 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Have we gassed our cars up lately ? Have we checked our wallets ? Gone grocery shopping ? Well I have!! I can't afford the most essential needs as they keep spiraling out of control . Help !!! We need new Ideas! We need MIT Romney.
Robert Fiorentino
11:10 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
If you need him so bad, start by learning how to spell his name :)
Kimberly Patterson
1:35 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Right. We need Mitt Romney like we need a hole in the head. I guess you were only looking at the foney grin and how he was more physically aggressive and not listen to what he was actually saying. He only gave you illusive statements like "bring down rates, raise incentives"....how is he going to do that?? Once again, just like the beginning of his campaign, he has given not a single clue as to HOW he is going to change what you've got in your wallet. WHAT new ideas, honey? And if you think either of these men are able to fix an economy that has been destroyed ever since we let the Republicans back into office (Reagan), then you're seriously delusional, but we need to end this "trickle down" theory that is letting the rich hold on to all the money and keep paying the rest of us criminally low wages and turn this nation into a 3rd world country. The only one who cares ANYTHING about that 47% Romney is talking about (YOU!), then you'd be wiser to vote for Obama. How insulting that anyone would tell us they will trickle down pennies to us....we should get our fair share, not sit at the table like a bunch of begging dogs waiting for crumbs to "trickle down" to us. Have some pride! We ARE the companies we work for and should be able to share in the profits WE helped create.
Longtime Resident
9:25 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Kimberly Patterson,
I think you are the one that is seriously delusional....under Obama the only people that have done any better are the ones on public assistance. The real middle class has suffered the most under Obama and will continue to suffer if he is given any more time. You say that Romney has not given you any real facts to show how he will make things better.....what facts has Obama provided???? What experience does Obama have in business that will help the economy??? Tell us what has improved over the past 4 years and who is better off now then when Obama took office (other than all the people they have working in the White House or his family/friends with all the expensive vacations at the tax payers expense).
Dunacn
10:36 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Kimberly
Did you just say the economy hasn't been right since Jimmy Carter was in office?? Hilarious!
Steve Gross
5:15 pm on Sunday, October 7, 2012
I completely agree Kimberly. @Longtime Resident: Are you saying that Mitt Romney has business experience? Okay, I guess that's a true statement. Why don't we invite Mitt Romney in to kill some more jobs, huh? Does BAIN CAPITAL mean anything to you? His job was to destroy others...and yet he's talking about job creation. Don't vote Romney cause you don't like Obama; please look at the man you're voting for before you cast your ballot.
Longtime Resident
9:57 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Steve Gross,
It is not because I dont like Obama, it is because I have no respect, no trust and not faith in him. He has done nothing good for the economy or the middle class. I wouldnt vote for him if he was the only person on the ballot.
Ed Gil
5:14 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
TO me obama has been a complete dissapointment, he promised change and things have not changed they stayed the same or have gotten worst. High unimployment, high gas prices, very high food prices, low paying jobs, everything still made in china, the richer get richer, do you want me to go on because it will get worst. As you say mr. president obama; we need change and you are one of the changes we need to make, we need a new president.
marty smith
5:24 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
The government should add another cabinet post? "secretary of television" Now thats important these days?
Roman
5:50 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Mr. Romney says he will not raise taxes but cut credits and deductions.
Well guess what it's the same thing, maybe even a bit worse.
He keeps talking about he will make things better, he probably means for the likes of him
Maybe that's why he he refuses to tell us how.
Bob
6:24 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Dont think anyone 'won' the debate...but although i dont agree with mitt on many of his policies, he did have a strong performance last night (in terms of presence, handling responses, tone, etc.). It did seem very rehearsed and he kept adding generic talking points at the end of each of his segments while talking to the crowd...made him look good but was funny to me. Very well done at the end of the day in my opinion. Although i think he did well, he did have some gafs, like calling out PBS cutting while the moderater is from PBS haha, and the strong stance that there is no tax cuts for sending jobs overseas...haha that was bold statement (he is wrong by the way). I think Mitt had a good jab at obama for the green energy spending, obama never responded to it...interested on looking that up more.
Look forward to the next debates
Dianna S.
8:20 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Exactly, Bob. I thought I would explode over the comment about tax cuts for sending jobs overseas. My husband is a tax accountant and does this for a living! Semantics...it's not a tax cut so to speak. What it is is a huge tax advantage for corporations to move their companies overseas. An advantage that the average American cannot take advantage of themselves! And when he talked about the person who had a small business with 4 employees and he went on about all the taxes he paid out ended up with something like a 50% tax rate. Well, he included every tax under the sun...sales tax, real estate, school tax, state and local taxes, etc... Those are NOT federal taxes and the Federal Government has NO control over those taxes, for crying out loud! Oh and the comment about how he would cut federal funding for Public Broadcasting was hysterical. And btw, does that mean only PBS? What about all the other non-profit organizations that apply for grants every year? Will he be cutting those too? Again, SEMANTICS! And the president could have jabbed back at those gaffs...but that's not how he rolls. He doesn't attack that way. He will respond in upcoming debates, I'm sure. There will be better opportunities for him, but I do think he should have nailed him last night, even if it meant not adhering to the format that Jim Lehrer was moderating.
Longtime Resident
9:38 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Dianna S.
That is very funny....that is not how he rolls.... He has taken more jabs and made more misleading statements then anyone. Obama did not slam him because he had nothing to stand on....Obama's record over the past 4 years is shameful to say the least. What real business experience does Obama have??? It is obviously not in budgeting as his budget did not get any support not even from his own party. What does Obama bring to the table other than one of the biggest personal white house staffs and the most government hand outs???
LocalBusiness
6:37 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Mitt...hands down. As with any job, performance is reviewed and changes are made. The greatness of our society is that WE control our leaders by our votes. The disgrace I see is that people humanize their support of a candidate when they look for an excuse for sub standard performance. When someone is barley achieving expectations we don't say..."not bad because he's so charming and speaks like knows what he's talking about..." we say ..."Thank you for your time but we need to head in another direction..." It's time to say thank you and gracefully head in another direction.
Millie Edmonds
7:44 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Mitt Romney won the debate! He is a polished gentleman and a great speaker. Obama cannot even look anyone in the eye. He stuttered over everything he tried to say.....More Lies!!! He has only made this country worse than ever. Him and his OBAMA CARE!! It is ridiculous. Why does he have to change that????? Get people jobs!!! How can anyone see how prices on everything have gone up, and everyone is out of work, and still vote for Obama??????????
Dianna S.
7:50 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
The question was: "Who won the debate?" Mitt Romney may have won the debate (and that is my opinion) however, he was not honest about where he stands on the issues. There was one statement that he was telling the truth about...he said that he wasn't worried about Corporations or the wealthiest Americans because they were doing just fine...and I guess they are, LOL.
He was going after the votes of the people who routinely have not been following all of his speeches at his gatherings and all of the far right wing and tea party people who have been "a courtin' him". Romney was aggressive and in the middle...maybe even drifting (dare I say) to the left somewhat. That's why he won the debate. He also had no problem going into attack mode toward the President. While President Obama did not return any attacks on Mr. Romney. So, YES...Mitt Romney won this debate. The next debate is a Town Hall Meeting and it's in Hempstead, Long Island. That's a great place for some beefy questions to come from and I doubt that either of the candidates will get away with any "flip flopping" due to the diversity of the demographics there. I also doubt that Romney will get away with saying that he wasn't going to touch Social Security and that little detail about his wanting to privatise Social Security conveniently was omitted last night. Let's see what the 47% have to say to Mr. Romney. He'd better have a really good coach for this one. Last night he was coached...and extremely well!
Longtime Resident
9:48 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Dianna S.,
You like to keep talking about the 47%.....what about all the people that Obama has hurt???? You go into who you believe Romney is courting for this election but what about the votes that Obama is BUYING with all of the hand outs to, the benefits for illegal residents???? Romney did not attack Obama he just pointed out all the flaws and all of the lies of the Obama administration.
Dunacn
10:45 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Dianna
You seem disappoited that Romney maybe more of a moderate, plyoing in the middle. That is exactly what this country needs to start working again. Bi-furcating into Left & Right isn't working. It didn't work for Bush and it isn't working for Obama.
Maria
7:54 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Not even close.
Romney.
Robin Connell
8:27 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Mitt Romney won hands down. Young voters need to understand that we can't afford to borrow money from China so Big Bird can collect a federal pension. It is only FAIR, Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse don't get tax payer subsidies. The executives who run PBS (1%ers) may have to reduce their salaries by 20% like the rest of us. Sesame Street is strong enough to survive in the private sector. Look at Sesame Place.
Yikes!
11:20 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Big deal - he didn't fall off the stage....Romney has made so many abysmal mistakes in the past few weeks/months, but he came off looking like a "winner" (mostly by Obama not challenging his lies and Lehrer not controlling him) - so now we should all think he's suddenly good presidential material?
His joking about cutting funds to PBS is indicative of his careless disregard for grassroots culture and non-commercial broadcasting...Sure, rather than stop the insanity of the millions of $$ a day that is spent on the Occupation in the Middle East, let's act like cutting funding to one of the only intelligent and family/friendly/safe networks in operation is a way to be "smart" and not borrow any more $ from China!
As far as I am concerned, he "lost" his chance in this debate. He just looked like another Republican BS Artist who may or may not believe his own lies, but knows when to bat his eyelashes and look sincere. How so many people fall for this right-wing theatrical quackery is just beyond belief!
Welcome to Kenya, the 51st State
8:44 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Way to go Mitt! That's how an American debates, kicking the butt of an unprepared, uppity, unqualified mess
Yikes!
8:59 pm on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Spoken like a true Romney supporter. Disgraceful.
Robin Connell
9:05 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
I guess if we lower taxes and make the taxcode easier so the taxpayers could file their own returns it would upset the accountants and IRS agents because they would have less work. There should be lots of jobs for them helping private companies grow their business. Wouldn't that be more rewarding for our accounting friends.
Dianna S.
8:43 am on Friday, October 5, 2012
Never gonna happen, Robin.
I think they've been talking about it (mind you, only talk) for about 40yrs that I personally know of. And it's not the accountants, cpa's, preparer's, enrolled agents, or IRS agents that don't want it to happen. They have no controll over it. You know the old saying..."follow the money" ? Well, that's how you find the culpret. People and Corporations that benefit from the loopholes are the ones that will never make it possible for the "taxcode to be easier so the taxpaers could file their own returns".
Just sayin...
William F. Brenner
10:21 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
It probably seemed more like a draw to the casual undecided voter. Only rabid political junkies would have found it interesting enough to try to analyze "Who Won."
Robert Fiorentino
11:21 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
I think Mitt looked better and had a more polished performance for sure. Substance-wise I don't think so. His "plan" reminded me of a quote from Atlas Shrugged. It promises too much and the math doesn't seem to make any sense:
"The John Galt Plan will reconcile all conflicts. It will protect the property of the rich and give a greater share to the poor. It will cut down the burden of your taxes and provide you with more government benefits. It will lower prices and raise wages. It will give more freedom to the individual and strengthen the bonds of collective obligations. It will combine the efficiency of free enterprise with the generosity of a planned economy."
Beacon Hill
11:23 am on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Ouch! Longtime Resident won that round against Dianna S. Not even a reply ha ha
Dianna S.
8:56 am on Friday, October 5, 2012
That's right, Beacon Hill.
Sometimes it's just not worth the effort. Especially when it was the Republicans that were just caught hiring an outside company to register only Republican voters. But "Obama" is buying votes? Please...
I don't usually reply to lame comments. However, consider yourself one of the privileged few
Bob
4:30 pm on Thursday, October 4, 2012
It should not matter who won or lost the debate. The American people should be the winners so that they can better know the candidate for whom they wish to vote. Enough already with Fox and MSNBC trying to determine a winner. TV reports will not help me make up my mind in November, my decision based on the true facts will.
stinky poo
7:50 pm on Thursday, October 4, 2012
Romney and Obama agree that the Hatboro website stinks.
Sandy LKR
12:35 am on Friday, October 5, 2012
Things could have been improved these last 4 years if the republicans hadn't shot down all the changes Obama tried to make to better our country. They did so to make him look like he wasn't doing a good job. Obama has worked hard to get this country straightened out, he tried to stop outsourcing, tried to end the war, but those rightwingers in congress shot down all his hard work. Romney is out to help the RICH, not the working middle class.
Longtime Resident
10:03 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Sandy,
Nice try...you are going to blame the republicans for Obama's poor record, for his lack of leagership, for his waste of 4 years. I wasnt the republicans that made Obama look like he was doing a poor job it was his record (or lack of) that did that.
Matt Grote
1:13 am on Friday, October 5, 2012
I agree with you, Sandy. Also, I would like to throw out there that during Obama's first campaign in 2009 he did say that the economy isn't going to change in just 4 years or even 8 years but for many more seats in the presidential chair or had everyone forgotten that? And for those who say that the only people who benefited from his term in office are the people on public assistants think about those same exact people when you have Mitt Romney in office when he allows financial passes for the rich and won't give two thoughts of the people who live on or under the poverty line.
Dianna S.
9:02 am on Friday, October 5, 2012
Matt and Sandy...
Let's not forget that Mitt Romney just said that we don't just let people die...we call ambulances and take them to the ER where they get treated.
His idea of health care for the uninsured? Why was it okay for Massachusetts but not for the entire country?
Longtime Resident
10:10 am on Monday, October 8, 2012
Matt Grote,
Obama said elect him for change.....and you are wrong the economy can and has changed over the past 4 years...IT GOT MUCH WORSE!!!!
Kimberly Patterson
8:19 pm on Monday, October 8, 2012
Good point, Dianna S. And Matt Grote. I work for my county in a courtroom everyday handling criminal cases. We are doing our best to manage the huge crime rates without a raise in the last 6 yrs. Obama has only been in office for 4, mind you. Bush did a number on this economy. And for the first time in 6 yrs, we are getting a holiday bonus in December. I dont know how people can say dropping the unemployment rate below 8% , saving our entire auto industry, and moving to create a universal health care plan so the middle class don't have to choose between health for dad or a college education for their kid (seen it happen) ...if that is doing nothing for the middle class I don't know what is. I really think anyone voting Republican after what Reaganomics and the Bushes did to this economy is flat out either severely ignorant or severely mentally disturbed. Keep the Republicans out of office!
Dianna S.
7:03 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Or they have a real problem with brown people in high places...since I know for a fact that is a reason for many voters (Republican and Democrat) for not wanting to have President Obama in the White House, and I mean first hand from people who have just out and out told me so. Now, this is where everyone jumps up and down and says how they're not bigoted or prejudice (which is not the same as racist, but that's another debate). Some are "afraid" of having a black man in office, some think he's a Muslim (now we're into bigotry) and some are just so filled with hatred that they can't see past that half of him that has a darker skin tone. Sorry for opening this can of worms, but we all know it's the truth. Not about EVERYONE who is against voting for Obama over Romney is racist...but tell me it wouldn't make more sense if the GOP had at least run someone that wouldn't kill what's left of the middle class and turn the economy back into a downward direction? At least you could understand if it was a candidate that stood for the same values or represented them economically. But come on...some of these people that want Romney are not even in the same zip code as one of the Romney's houses. So there it is, I've said it! Some of the Romney supporters do not want a black man in office...for whatever their reason.
Longtime Resident
10:23 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Dianna S.
You are right about one thing...you opened a can of worms that was totally inappropriate. All the comments so far have been about policy, economy and then you want to make this about race now. WHY??? Now that you have gone there ….you are probably right that some people won’t vote for Obama because of race but there will be as many if not more people that will vote for Obama only because of his race and that is just as inappropriate as what you are claiming.
Dianna S.
11:20 am on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
Yep...I can't argue that. Some people will vote for him because of his race. But it won't be because they agree more with Mitt Romney's political views and they won't vote for Romney because he is white. It will be because they would agree with the President's policy anyway and because he is brown they will make a point to get out and vote. That's what the difference is. When someone would vote for a Democrat if they were light skinned but because they are dark skinned they won't vote for them, then that is wrong. But because this is the GREAT Country that it is, WE are all entitled to the right to vote for whomever we choose for whatever the reason. And to answer your question as to why??? I was responding to Kimberly Patterson's post..."I really think anyone voting Republican after what Reaganomics and the Bushes did to this economy is flat out either severely ignorant or severely mentally disturbed." To which I added my remark about "or they have a real problem with brown people in high places."
That's all...but I am aware of how sensitive some people are about race. Not all are. Take me, for instance...I'm more sensitive about fat comments than race. So, there ya go. If you said you wouldn't vote for that fat guy that runs N.J....now that might piss me off. Because that's not a good reason for not voting for him. If you didn't vote for him because you think he's a dumb arse than I'd agree with you.
Longtime Resident
1:17 pm on Tuesday, October 9, 2012
So let me see if I understand what you are saying…..If you don’t vote for Obama it is because he is black but if they vote for him because he is black it is only because they agree with policies. I disagree with that, as I said before there will be people that vote for Obama ONLY because he black and nothing to do with policy. Then you say that if anyone votes for Romney they are they are either severely ignorant or severely mentally disturbed. So if people don’t agree with your point of view then they are ignorant or mentally disturbed…..that statement shows that you are ignorant. People will vote for Romney because of his policies and his business experience, not because he is white. There are a lot of people that feel that Obama has not accomplished anything he promised, has not made things better (actually worse) and don’t trust him or his promises any more. You may be a fanatical democrat but that does not mean that all republicans are the same…that is just another type of prejudice that you are adding to the mix here.
Now for your answer to the question WHY, you said you were responding to Kimberly Patterson’s post. However I don’t see any where in her post the mention or even the hint race being brought up. You say you are aware of how sensitive people are about race but your post was the first time it was brought into this forum, and it should be left out of the equation as it serves to do absolutely no good.
Dianna S.
8:50 am on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
So, Longtime Resident...how do you feel about voting for fat people? Would you vote for a fat Governor?
BTW, I am not the person who said "that if anyone votes for Romney they are they are either severely ignorant or severely mentally disturbed"
I just added something to the mix so you don't have to call me names...that just hurts my feelings that you don't like me. most people think I'm an awesome person! Not to mention a snappy dresser. You need to chill, Longtime! You're really making this personal. We can get along, I just won't be voting for Romney and you won't be voting for Obama. I didn't say you were a racist. Why are you getting all defensive about it? And, No, I guess you don't understand what I said. Because what I said was that the policies that Democrats primary represent are those of that particular demographic that a black voter would be a part of...and therefore they would be more likely to vote for Obama anyway and not Mitt Romney, who represents a traditionally higher income bracket than most black voters. White voters, on the other hand, could be of higher, middle or lower income brackets and if they voted for Romney dispite the fact that he didn't represent their particular needs or views better than Obama, well then WHY would they vote for him at all (Romney that is)? That is what Kimberly Patterson was saying. No, it has nothing to do with race, that's just the elephant in the room. It SHOULD be left out of the equation, but rarely is.
Longtime Resident
2:16 pm on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Dianna S.,
I am not getting defensive just pointing out some one sided inconsistencies in your statements. I have always voted for the person I believed to be the best candidate with NO regard for their political party, age, sex, religious beliefs, RACE or their waist size. There are lots of reasons people vote for one candidate over another and it could be as simple as they feel they were promised things that did not happen and they get one excuse after another (its only his first term, other politicians blocked his plans, etc.). I do agree that race tends to rear its ugly head but until your post it had not made an appearance here.
Kimberly Patterson
12:20 pm on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
What Kimberly Patterson was saying is exactly what she said. It makes ZERO sense to vote for someone who has NO plan and only talks about "freedom" and "liberty" and being "about jobs" with NO PLAN. And when he DID have a semi agenda (that made no sense either) he rescinded it in the debate like he never said any of what he said before! And all his supporters called that a win. Haha. Its seriously scary. So when I said you have to be mentally disturbed to be voting for someone who is going to "NOT change education, NOT increase taxes on the wealthy, NOT grant health care for everyone" and not be clear on what he IS going to do, yeah something is not right with that voter in their upstairs department. Racism falls under the mentally disturbed category. There is SOME subversive, underlying motive to vote for Romney, who makes absolutely no sense because it sure isn't based on his plans for our future.
Longtime Resident
2:15 pm on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Kimberly Patterson,
It must be great to be all knowing and be able to speak for everyone. You seem to believe that your opinion is fact and that everyone else is not competent to think for them selves of have an opinion. If people don’t think like you or believe in your views then they are mental, racists that have subversive motives for voting for the candidate they like. When Obama was elected it was because he promised change (no plan on how to do that). He still promised changed and has not spelled out his plan for change. The economy is worse than before he was elected. He did put Obama care together which will provide healthcare for everyone but did not figure out how to pay for it without putting the burden on small business or penalties on individuals. But feel secure because Obama, his family, his over sized house hold staff, and other politicians have great healthcare at our expense.
William F. Brenner
2:40 pm on Wednesday, October 10, 2012
Dianna, Longtime and Kimberly: Haven't you said about all there is to say on this subject by now? Between the three of you there have been 21 posts in less than a week! Maybe you could just agree to disagree and let it go at that. (My inbox would appreciate it.)
Dianna S.
7:06 am on Thursday, October 11, 2012
Yes, William...I agree with you. In fact I actually said that same thing 4 posts ago when I said : "You need to chill, Longtime! You're really making this personal. We can get along, I just won't be voting for Romney and you won't be voting for Obama."
And also when I didn't respond to the first comment and Beacon Hill said that I didn't reply to Longtime. And Kimberly has every right to clarify her statements since both Longtime and I brought her comments into our discussion. Also, don't you have the option here to "stop following" a particular thread? Not that I want you to stop following me, but you have that option. Anyway, I did say that I believe that Romney won the debate. And I also made it clear what side of the line I was standing on...the left. So I guess you can just put me into that category that you described as,"Only rabid political junkies would have found it interesting enough to try to analyze "Who Won." "
Which is fine with me. But I don't like being bullied. So while I usually avoid getting into cat fights like it would have been had I replied to Longterm's original reply to me (incorrectly stating that I keep referring to the 47% when I mentioned it once or like the one about the President "buying votes"), I did reply to Beacon to tell him/her that I don't usually reply to lame comments but that I was replying to his to tell him why I didn't reply to Longtime's. Other than that, all I did was reply to some other contributions on this board.
Dianna S.
7:11 am on Thursday, October 11, 2012
Oh, I also tried to bring some levity into it when I made the remarks about me not liking fat comments or fat candidates being discriminated against...I mean I don't, but it was meant to lighten up the discussion.
Longtime Resident
9:43 am on Thursday, October 11, 2012
William F Brenner,
It is very easy to get caught up in a conversation / dialogue / debate over a topic especially when people address you and your comments directly. Isn't that part of the purpose of this forum, isn't that considered freedom of speech, isn't that one thing that makes America great, that people can discuss things and share their point of view? It is just a shame that people feel bullied if others don't agree with or share their opinions. I agree that at some point all good things should come to an end....and this is probably that point for this topic at least for now but you know with more debates there will be more discussions.